Regarding this letter, not to mention ongoing years of this back and forth “lets shit on the Livable Income since the Neo Liberals like it so much” and, lets keep fighting to “Raise The Rates” and screw the Livable4All, cause we know, we are dogmatic…we can seem so closed minded and there is only room for one campaign?

Hallmark Card:I’d rather have a mind open to wonder than closed by belief.

Hint Hint.

I have over many years supported the Raise The Rates.  Have you ever supported the MLK version which included teh mass march on Washington for Housing For All he had planned but was shot before: or, the Basic Income as Women in Africa envisioned?

I am loosing my mind and its all surreal when here I am yelling at two mentors!?  Its got ot be a two way or you both come off as a bit arrogant.  Not a huge horrible accusation as, I been called that before and survived.  I stand by ethics/values one of which is open minded.

Yup, I said it.

As I and many been saying for years and TRYING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION about, but, I keep hearing the silent “You are just naive, need more education, your not seeing whole picture…” Yeah, well, I was raised by radical feminism not Marxism.  FYI.  I then learned what I could about Marxism, I learned that Marx could learn a lot from radical women of colour.

We whoa re poor who support the Livable4All Income guarantee, we do NOT have a VOICE here (like most places) nor the Resources nor the desire to keep arguing, since there is no actual debate, just those with more Resources who lead poor and happen to get more of their ideas / beliefs / campaigns out, folks like me, just seen as a pain in the ass by the likes of you.

Welfare as a Neo Liberal Weapon? Yup.

Livable4All as a Neo Liberal Weapon?  Doesn’t fit.

Livable for all means livable for all, not much room to fuck with. 

Basic Income as a Neo Liberal Weapon? Yup.  That fits. Too broad and leaves a lot of room for Neo Liberal BS.

Then, I see you John respond to “robot talk”, I see this as neo liberal.  Then, the critism turns  into this judgemental Calvinistic work ethic, you all go on about peeps sitting around while robots do our work.  Most humans do not want to nor can just sit around.

The MLK version includes what happened in Chicago with Housing Now movements back in the day.  You stay clear of that version, ironically.  Its about Build Homes Now, Livable4All.

How I see it is this: You seem to see me as the wee piece of pain in the ass at the end of your shoe.

I have asked for you folks to consider that the same arguments you bring forward against the Basic Income idea holds true for WELFARE, and yet, “No comment”. Nothing. Not a mention.  Why do you got to both be like that on this issue?

I believe this is what many have referred to as closed minded and judgemental  which still = dogmatic in most peeps books.  I am street, from street, where you from you two I wonder?

Ever live on streets as homeless? Maybe post this to YOUR sites and lets get into an actual debate?  Dream on Kym, that would be open debate…

Lived experience of homelessness are pretty much fodder even here, our lives merely statistics, used but never able to lead.


MLK version NOT NIXONS version: Douglas’s version of Welfare NOT the One we Suffer under now which Neo Liberals LOVE!  You forget to mention that, both of you!  Raise The Rates within a sick dead system which fails us at every turn, can we move on to complete shift in said system?  How is a Raise The Rates going to help in long run when it never has, its like the minimum wage campaigns, once we get one, a raise, its already too late and old and nil and we need more.

I support Raise The Rates Campaign since it started, way back when…, and you know Jean that I and others can line up , IF I BUT HAD ANY FUCKING TIME or resources, line up corporate fucks who LOVE this hell version of WELFARE right now that we suffer under and will NOT change till we protest on mass!?

I am asking that you consider the MLK Build Homes Now, Unite across race and class and insure homes 4 All!?  Why not?

We need to know BLOOD was shed for the eight hour day, Blood Will Be Shed for a healthy social system.  We can educate on that.

Great you critically analyze the Nimrod Versions however, can you  MAKE the distinction between these other versions?   Why not point to the Martin Luther King Version of a basic income, the WOMEN in Africa’s version, NOT THE KKKAPITALIST VERSION nor the Neo Liberal robots will do my job stupid, we won’t have robots when we don’t have water/life.

Do I seem angry? Yeah, I am so fucking fed up since we never have the conversations, just reactions, its just more of this BS Divide and Rule that wins on this one, still.

You’d think we’d learn but no, lets just keep up this DOGMATIC divide. I didn’t even want to read this article by John, I figured it would be just more of the same old same old shit on other idea and Raise The Rates Rocks and is brilliant!  But, I did and, the ned wrapped it up for me:


Here it is from me:

“Basic Income is a false hope and a pathway to the commodification of social provision that, while it may be paved with good intentions, leads to a destination entirely to the liking of those who design and operate the neoliberal order.”

Welfare State (and the continued Raise The Rates Campaigns) “are” a false hope and a pathway to the commodification of social provision that, while it may be paved with good intentions, leads to a destination entirely to the liking of those who design and operate the neoliberal order.”

Will we Unite?  I hope so, time is of the essence.